Council fails to remove historic board chair
By Joey Pitchford
Published in News on August 21, 2018 5:50 AM
The Goldsboro City Council declined to remove Historic District Commission Chairman Zach Lilly from the commission Monday after hearing a recording of Lilly chastising fellow commission member Ravonda Jacobs.
Councilman Antonio Williams, whose residency Lilly challenged in June, brought the issue up during the council's work session Monday. He read a letter from Jacobs, in which she wrote that she felt threatened to speak up during commission meetings at the risk of being yelled at.
Williams played a recording taken during the commission's last meeting in which Lilly can be heard criticizing Jacobs for speaking to the city council during its July 16 meeting.
During the July meeting, Jacobs read an email sent to the council by Historic Commission member Alicia Pierce. In the email, Pierce criticized Lilly's actions as chairman, including an amendment he proposed that would have limited membership on the commission to people who physically reside in the historic district.
Jacobs also criticized the commission for focusing too heavily on buying and selling properties and not on educating the community on the city's history. The powers and duties of the historic commission include conducting "an educational program on historic districts within its jurisdiction," according to the Goldsboro Code of Ordinances.
In the recording Williams played, Lilly is heard chastising Jacobs before the rest of the commission for what he said was a lack of initiative on her part.
"It is incredibly frustrating to me that we have a member who is a part of the historic district awareness committee who goes to the city council and complains about a lack of action for education or education policies," Lilly says in the recording. "... You're complaining about us not doing our jobs when you have a platform to do your job."
Jacobs is then heard responding that she has several educational projects in the works, and that "when you do actual projects they don't happen overnight." She says that she went before the council because she had not heard anything from Lilly or fellow awareness committee member Judith McMillen about when the committee would begin work.
At that point in the recording, Lilly is heard raising his voice at Jacobs, telling her that "when you attack this commission, you are attacking every member on it, and you did do that."
The conversation then becomes unintelligible in spots, with Lilly and Jacobs then speaking at the same time.
"Do you know what I have done for this commission ...?," Lilly says loudly. "... I am the youngest, the youngest council member ... and you tell me that I'm not doing my job."
When Jacobs responds that she did not say Lilly isn't doing his job, he is heard yelling "you did," and then abruptly adjourns the meeting.
Councilman Williams, the council's representative on the Historic District Commission, is then heard asking commission members to sit back down, but the recording ends shortly afterward.
After Williams finished playing the recording to the council Monday, he said he has "no personal reasons to come after Mr. Lilly," but that Lilly has "his own agenda." Lilly's attempted residency challenge against Williams was declined by the Wayne County Board of Elections in July.
Councilmember Mark Stevens said that he had heard the entire tape at a meeting with Lilly and Mayor Chuck Allen, which Lilly asked for after the recording was made. This prompted Williams to accuse Stevens and Councilmember David Ham of being "friends" with Lilly and looking out for Lilly's interests, which Stevens and Ham denied.
"I have never met Zach Lilly in my life," Ham said.
By this point, the council's work session became a shouting match, with Stevens, Williams, Ham and Allen all trying to speak at the same time. When Stevens tried to make a motion regarding Lilly's position on the commission, Williams said that he had "proof" that Stevens was friends with Lilly and that he was trying to "save" Stevens, prompting another loud, unintelligible exchange between the two men.
Williams compared the council's action on his residency -- an issue sparked by an anonymous letter -- to what he considered its lack of action on Lilly.
"We got an anonymous letter on me, and this board acted like that," he said. "However, you get an email from someone who does great things in this community, and we're not investigating this?"
Councilman Bevan Foster eventually made a motion to remove Lilly from the commission. The motion failed 5-2, with Foster and Williams voting in favor and Allen, Ham, Stevens and Councilmembers Gene Aycock and Bill Broadaway voting in opposition.
The council did, however, approve a motion to require councilmembers who want to add an item to the agenda ahead of time to include a small paragraph detailing exactly what they intend to talk about. Foster and Williams frequently add items to the agenda for the board to discuss -- the issue of Lilly's conduct was one such item.
Despite voting not to remove Lilly, Allen said that by raising his voice, chastising Jacobs in public and criticizing her for speaking her mind to the council, he felt that Lilly had not conducted himself appropriately. He said that Lilly should either be removed as chairman by the commission itself or voluntarily step down from the position.
The city council has the authority to appoint or remove members, according to the city's code of ordinances.
Jacobs said that the council should convene a special investigation to look into not only Lilly's conduct, but the historic commission as a whole. She said the board should also hear from other members of the commission whom she says have run afoul of Lilly in the past.
"I would like a special investigation across the board," Jacobs said. "I think removing him is not really enough -- I would like him removed -- but a special investigation. I would like them to talk to everyone on the historic board, review past history and past tapes, and just make a fair decision."
Leaving the meeting, Lilly said that the council made the right decision in not removing him.
"I think the city council handled it appropriately, and I just think the whole story should be seen before decisions are made," he said.
Lilly elaborated on that point during the council's regular meeting after the work session. Following several people who came forward to speak against him -- including Jacobs -- Lilly apologized for yelling, but said that there was more to the story than just what Williams had shown.
"I apologize for raising my voice, I should not have done that, and I apologize profusely to everybody, including the community, the historic district commission and Ms. Jacobs as well. That could have been handled in a much better fashion, and I did not do that," he said.
"Quite frankly though, I welcome the investigation and would be more than happy to assist city council or the city attorney however they see necessary."